Hello everyone,

There has been a lot of discussion recently on the forums, and one topic that has come up involves retaining prolific trip leaders and volunteer course instructors.  There are many other ways people volunteer in the club (trail clearing, membership drives, etc); however, I ask that this thread is kept to discussions on trip leaders and course instructor retention ideas.  Note, when I use the term "prolific" I refer to 4 or more trips per year by an individual .

To date, the following incentives are available to volunteer course instructors and prolific trip leaders:

1. Access to the "Pro-Deal" memberships.  Various discounts from around 30-70% in the Canada and the United states. 
2. Discounts on Guide- Led courses(23.1 and 23.2 in Policy Manual).  Courses like AST-1, Rock Rescue, Crevasse Rescue, and Wilderness first aid offer 25% and 50% off course fees for prolific trip leaders and course volunteers.  Reimbursements are made on other courses as noted in 23.1

Below are some newer incentives that have been recently introduced/ revitalized:

1. MEC Gift cards or membership renewal for volunteer course instructors
2. Expenses reimbursed for course instructors (gas, hotels where applicable, etc.)

There have been some other ideas that have floated around:

1. Providing/ Reimbursing trip leaders/ instructors for US medical insurance 
2. Providing guide-led training for course instructors/ prolific trip leaders.  This might include having the club cover the cost of wilderness first aid or other training (perhaps on navigation, emergency response, or other topics that would benefit trip leaders and course instructors)

Does anyone have any other ideas or comments?  Any personal experiences on the subject?

Cheers,

Rob

Volunteer Course Coordinator

EDIT: Wording changed slightly to make more sense.

I should also clarify the process I was hoping to achieve.  Before commenting on what iare the best or least popular ideas, I ask people to please refraining from making judgement until people have had adequate time to contribute/ brainstorm their thoughts.  

Thanks!

Rob

For instructors only. Makng it simple.

1. Remove Access to the "Pro-Deal" memberships: this creates effect "More is Less", same reason for the items below.

2. Remove "Discounts on Guide- Led courses"

3. Remove "MEC Gift cards or membership renewal for volunteer course instructors"

4. Remove "Providing/ Reimbursing for US medical insurance"

5. Remove "Providing guide-led training for course instructors"

Instead have only two incentives :

a) Let instructor retain 90% of the proceeds of club-organized paid courses that he/she conducted to be spent on his/her future club trips expenses / training / events / replacing lost and worn personal equipment etc. Example: instructor  conducts a paid course for club members and uses 90% of the proceeds to cover part of the cost of his/her trip to Ama Dablam Expedition, no questions asked.

Reason is simple: motivation (or lack of it). Why a rock climber should be excited about generating revenue that will be spent on projects that he doesn't care about (e.g. building new huts for skiers)?

b) Reimburse instructor's transportation cost, paid course or not, no questions asked, for the entire distance from his/her home and back, using Guidelines for Compensation of Drivers, formula for one passenger.

This is a change that certainly requires time, passion, dedication (to club's core values) and patience. You can first try it as a pilot project - say for a year and see if it worked. Then either cancel it or modify or accept as official.

I like the idea of these:

1. Discounts on Guide- Led courses(23.1 and 23.2 in Policy Manual).  Courses like AST-1, Rock Rescue, Crevasse Rescue, and Wilderness first aid offer 25% and 50% off course fees for prolific trip leaders and course volunteers.  Reimbursements are made on other courses as noted in 23.1
2. Providing guide-led training for course instructors/ prolific trip leaders.  This might include having the club cover the cost of wilderness first aid or other training (perhaps on navigation, emergency response, or other topics that would benefit trip leaders and course instructors)

A few years ago I took the AST-1 even though I regularly assisted Justin Bennett in the three avalanche training sessions (transceiver skills, terrain, and response).  I wanted to know what was covered.  I received no special discount.  A special discount would have been appreciated.

Regarding having the instructor retain 90% of the course fees, I don't agree.  I'm comfortable with an honorarium (membership) and offsetting certain expenses, but this is something else entirely.  Others can weigh in on the legal complications but this seems to be to open a door I don't think should be: am I now acting a guide (certified or not)? what if something goes wrong--am I covered?  am I covered by the club's liability insurance?  do I need extra insurance?  And on a practical level: what monies are owed to the club for me operating a business using their infrastructure?

I feel that any monies generated by volunteer-led courses can be used to purchase club equipment for use in training/practices (such as the static rope purchased this past summer), providing honorariums/compensation for travel expenses, and to replace or assist with the cost of replacement of equipment lost or damaged during a course.

Thanks for your suggestions, Sergui and Winifred.  

Sergui, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean in your most recent post.  Can you elaborate a bit?  EDIT post remove.

Just a note here for anyone entering the discussion.  The goal is to allow any and all ideas to be brought to the table.  I'm happy to discuss current policies and their effectiveness, but I ask to please refrain from commenting on anyones' suggestions specifically at this point.

iegres has added a new post in the forum topic: Supporting and Retaining Instructors/ Leaders . The post is:

"Seeing club's schedule in terms of motivation - a rather sad picture: there are a lot of commercial courses being offered by the club and practically zero training offered by volunteers. Something is wrong unless one admits: no motivation produces no further action. Calling volunteer's activity "a business" would be rather radical - there is no profit being made - same as one will not call a carpool diver "a business"."

Serguei,

I think it is great that the club is arranging commercial courses for the membership.  It accomplishes several things:

1. It presents available training to the membership which makes it easier for members to sign up for training.  This is a club service.
2. It suggests relevant training for new mountaineers.  Another service.
3. It provides standardized training to the membership by certified guides.
4. It provides a record of training within a member's profile which helps trip organizers screen on the more technical trips (this is lost if the member arranges for training on their own).

"Motivation...sad picture...practically zero training offered by volunteers...."  As someone who has run/assisted in running eight training sessions since Spring, I don't know what to say.  Do you expect there to be volunteer-led training every weekend?  And really, why should there be any volunteer-led training?  

Carpool shared expenses (gas + extra for wear and tear) and someone charging a fee to run a training session are not comparable.  How is there is no profit being made by the volunteer?  What are the direct costs to the volunteer for running the course?

"Let instructor retain 90% of the proceeds of club-organized paid courses that he/she conducted to be spent on his/her future club trips expenses / training / events / replacing lost and worn personal equipment etc. Example: instructor  conducts a paid course for club members and uses 90% of the proceeds to cover part of the cost of his/her trip to Ama Dablam Expedition, no questions asked."

Perhaps someone with some legal and risk knowledge can weigh in here: does being paid to run a training session/course change the nature of the relationship between the "instructor" and "students" and does the Club's liability insurance cover this?  Even though we talk all around about being volunteers and not guides, does getting paid to run the course change things?

Clarification to the post above (19.01.2016 09:20)

Re: incentive a)

"retentioned" funds were not meant to be paid out to the instructor in cash - this would be too vulgar (and like many others, I too detest presence of commercial spirit here). Instead the amount could be kept in the club's "account" and used to support instructor in his/her future club-organized projects. For example, instead of giving discounts for training here and there, use his "account" amount to pay part or in full for the training he/she requested. Or instead of searching for donors of used devices, rent or buy new avalanche beacons for training sessions. Or cover part of his alpine (club-scheduled) expedition cost to Mt. Robson, etc. etc. Support stops when the "account" balance reaches zero.

Implementation of this idea certainly needs someone with dedication and passion to do necessary bookkeeping, but I have been told (many times) that the club badly needs more volunteer-led courses, so this is something to think about - it may work, it may not - but no doubt, without official, effective and approved incentives there will be nothing done.

P.S.
1) Of course, an instructor may elect to run the course free of charge, then incentive a) doesn't apply, because 90% of 0 is 0, and all will be as simple as it is now - you got the picture.

2) Based on my real alpine experience, I find quality of commercial CWMS training a lot lower than it is supposed to be, even shocking (and scary) on occasions. Our famous volunteer-led courses (by Justin B. and others) delivered much better, more practical and richer material, free of charge to whomever bothered to attend.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for starting this thread, Rob. This is a really great discussion to have. 

We've had some recent ideas bouncing around about getting avi beacons for practice and/or instructional sessions, which has sparked the following question: I'm wondering what members' thoughts are on having equipment resources for volunteer-led courses or trips. I understand we have some radios, and are considering getting some beacons, but what else would be useful? Ropes? Pickets? Biners? Would having these sorts of resources help motivate volunteers to lead courses and trips? 

I welcome your opinions and suggestions :)

Marlaina wrote:

I'm wondering what members' thoughts are on having equipment resources for volunteer-led courses or trips. I understand we have some radios, and are considering getting some beacons, but what else would be useful? Ropes? Pickets? Biners? Would having these sorts of resources help motivate volunteers to lead courses and trips?

Rob and I have been in discussion about building an instructors kit.  Having such gear available takes the burden off the volunteer instructor in having to use and abuse their own gear for instructional purposes.  I wouldn't say it would motivate but it would remove a barrier!

- Winifred

I'm glad the club is inquiring about this! As a trip organizer I find myself using a lot of my equipment, vehicle, and of course (goes without saying) time to prepare. In some cases equipment is damaged or lost and I'm left to foot the bill.

As it turns out, last fall I organized a non-club trip with 2 other BCMC members to the Liberty Bell area and one of them accidentally spilled stove fuel on one of my twin ropes. After much debate with the party responsible for the fuel I'm left now with a $400 bill to replace my ropes and a bitter taste in my mouth about the climbing ethics of some … 

Long story short, I strongly believe that there should be a system where trip organizers get a discount at a gear store so we can replace our gear. For example:

- x5 outdoor trips = 5% at X store

- x10 outdoor trips = 10% at X store

- x15 or more outdoor trips = 25% at X store

The current discount scheme is a good first step, but as it was pointed out are under utilized. I myself, have only used the discount offered for Goldstar shoe repair.

Regarding course discounts… well my opinion is that safety courses should be offered for free for those trip organizers that have proven themselves year after year. Also, the current introductory courses for which discounts exist are something that the majority of trip organizers have already taken. 

My 0.02 cents worth of feedback. 

I think that we as a club are at a point were some structure is needed in order to move forward in any meaningful way. This thread is attempting to focus on a couple of points as rsimzer requests "this thread is kept to discussions on trip leaders and course instructor retention ideas"

How about as a club, we put forward what we/members want from a trip leader, perhaps novice members want a different style or type than members with higher skill sets. Again for instructors, perhaps a list of qualifications or endorsements from within the club structure, or the membership along with any other relevant skills. I think that it is reasonable to ask someone who is going to claim access to a benefit/stipend/ pro deal should at least be able to show how they will be able to perform the task. We encourage all members to organize triips and we will train those who feel that will help, but not so with skill based course/workshop instruction.

How about adopting a policy or style, trips for members by members, workshops for members by members. In other words, no fee trips and no fee workshops. Any member trips or workshop generated revenues are for core operational expenses, paper, pens, envelopes, stamps etc I think as an organization we have discovered that there are other revenue streams for club projects so revenue generating trips or workshops should be kept to a minimum and only used to top up shortfalls not covered by the general membership revenue........blah blah blah.

This problem is not new, has been a problem when I joined, was a problem before that, and will continue to be a problem. I think that if we can put together a process that is attractive, easily fits newcomers, keeps them happy for a while, and remains flexible and inviting to new and experienced participants, that would be awesome. Building a sense of purpose and pride in activities sweetens everything else.

In closing, (trying to stay under 500 words) members helping out members. What we/club/members ask of participants and what we would like to make available to participants should be clearly stated.

I suspect that most people join the BCMC so they can go on organized trips and receive mentorship. It should be a priority of the executive to provide these things and I am glad that Rob created this forum topic!

I agree with the idea of members helping members, but support charging a small fee for volunteer run courses. A fair bit of planning went into the Introduction to Backcountry Skiing courses this year and since there was no "maximum participant" limit, it was a task to get extra instructors. It can be inconvenient when people cancel at the last minute, and they are less likely to do this if they have paid; a couple of people did pull out but they had good reasons and have been reimbursed.

In all, 35 people each paid $40 for the course, which generated $1400, and at least half of these people joined the BCMC just to take the course (>$600). The BCMC needs to ensure that there are plenty of beginner friendly backcountry skiing trips for these people who contributed $2000 to the club.

We need to support prolific trip organizers, but other members also need to chip in. If everyone put just one trip on the schedule, that would be a whole lot more than we have now.

But I don't know how to make this happen :)

I recall that in the 1990's when I taught the BCMC's General Mountaineering Course several times, the club owned a number of ropes, shovels and avalanche transceivers (perhaps additional equipment as well).  Typically at the end of a course, I would purchase a new rope to add to the club's inventory.  I am not sure why the club moved away from maintaining a stock of these kinds of items, but there may have been good reason.  I do recall that the log information kept with regards to ropes was a bit sketchy.  

Perhaps the reason the club could maintain a collection of ropes was because in the 1990's we ran at least one or two volunteer run general mountaineering courses each year.  This provided ample revenue to support the purchasing of new equipment.

Just a little background history.

Once again, thanks to Rob for bringing this up. I would suggest to view the issue from the opposite angle:  it could be easier to get the answer to the original question (what motivates volunteer instructors) by finding what demotivates them. Talk to those who have been active in the past, but no so much now. Everyone always has a solid reason to do something, especially at one's own "free" but very limited time - even volunteers. Once the reason is gone, people are gone too.

All,

Thank you for your constructive points.  Apologies for the delayed response-- I've been travelling for the last 5 weeks and am getting caught up on emails and such now while I wait in the airport:)

Peter-- I would like to discuss a couple of points you brought up.  There have been a lot of discussions on what should be charged (if anything) for volunteer-lead courses.  Ultimately it is up to the course organizer, but my personal feeling is that a small fee has at least two benefits:

1. It motivates people to actually show up for the courses they have paid for (unfortunately if people have not actually spent money on a course they may decide to not show up, and ultimately take away a spot that someone else could have filled)
2. It allows us to use that money to (hopefully) provide discounts to volunteer instructors on furthering their outdoor knowledge, or to be used for other membership retention/ course materials/ gear for courses, etc.

As for your point on the trip leader qualifications.  At this point anyone has the ability to post a trip on the trip schedule (with the review of a senior member).  The policy in place for taking advantage of "pro-deals" and course discounts is based on the number of trips they have lead or instructed.  I think what you are suggesting is a more specific, merit based/ skills based system (ie. be able to complete X Y Z before being allowed to receive a discount).  This worries me for 2 reasons.  The first being that it might overcomplicate our current system, and unfortunately there's not a whole lot of volunteer time available for miscellaneous admin items.  The second point is that trip leaders are just that-- leaders, and not guides.  At this point if we put further restrictions on the skills and abilities required for the trip leaders, it could further damage the trips available on the trip schedule.  

While I also like your suggestion on having courses available without fees, that would eliminate courses being offered by Canada West.  I think there is a lot of benefit of having outside instruction by Canada West or other guiding services.  First, we are already lacking volunteer instructors and it allows us to "offer" discounted courses to members.  Next, there is a certain level of instruction offered by guides that is held to the ACMG standards.  Personally, I'm quite happy paying the fees with an expectation of what I will receive in return.

That said I do appreciate your input and hope you will continue to add to the discussion.

Adrian,

That's a bummer about the gear, and is a poor performance by the BCMCer that ruined the rope!  I appreciate your other suggestions on both the discounts and on courses.  I think a challenge with the Fast-Track course reimbursement that stands now is that the courses available are ones a trip leader may have already taken before they felt comfortable leading a course or trip.  It would be worth discussing either adding to the list of courses available, or updating how leaders could be reimbursed.

Well, that's it for now.  I'll be checking in on the forum in a couple of weeks :)

Cheers everyone,

Rob